Vocational Rehabilitation

If your transition assistance program was anything like the one I went through, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) representative who went over Vocational Rehabilitation made it sound like the last thing you might want to qualify for. After serving as a VA School Certifying Official (SCO), I learned what the Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment program (generally just called “Voc Rehab” or, in VA terminology, Chapter 31) is really all about and it is a great program. However, just like every other VA education benefit, there are some pros and cons you need to consider before you decide if this is the VA education program that best suits you.

Voc Rehab, as I will refer to it for the rest of this post, is a comprehensive program for veterans with service-connected disabilities, specifically those with a minimum 10% disability rating from the VA. It is comprised of a mix of tools necessary to obtain employment, as defined by the veteran’s Voc Rehab counselor. The tools can include: education, counseling, employment placement services, other “work readiness assistance,” and potentially even necessary medical and dental referrals. Its primary objective is to help veterans find and maintain employment and this is a key difference between this and other VA education programs. (Note: Veterans who are unemployable due to their injuries may also be able to qualify for some aspects of Voc Rehab designed to improve their quality of life.)

Since the services available depend greatly on the individual veteran’s needs and since this week’s posts are about education, I am going to focus this post on the education piece of Voc Rehab. Details about the entire Voc Rehab program can be found on the VA's benefit site.

So, what are some of the pros and cons of the Voc Rehab education benefit?

Pros:

48 instead of 36 - While most VA education benefits only offer 36 months of benefits, Voc Rehab can pay up to 48 months of benefits. How many months you actually get is entirely dependent on the rehabilitation plan you and your Voc Rehab counselor come up with.

Full tuition and fees and books – The Post-9/11 GI Bill now caps tuition and fees at the maximum in state rate for the state in which your school is located (and you have to find a way to pay the difference) and only pays a maximum $1000 yearly book stipend. Benefits, such as the traditional MGIB, don’t pay for any tuition and fees or books at all. Voc Rehab, however, pays for all of the tuition, fees, and books required for your degree plan. This includes private colleges and out-of-state fees, if necessary.

Consumables and supplies – As if tuition, fees, and books weren’t enough, Voc Rehab can also cover up to $40 worth of “consumables” a term – those are things like pencils, paper, Scantron sheets, and other items that you will use up during a term. Additionally, Voc Rehab can (it doesn’t have to, but it can and often does) pay for other items required for your degree. For example, if you want to be a nurse, Voc Rehab could potentially pay for: the cost of the TEAS test (that’s a test common for nursing programs that costs about $50 each time you take it), a background check, scrubs, a stethoscope, or any other item that may be required to complete that degree.

- Tutoring – Voc Rehab’s primary goal is to give you the tools to successfully complete your degree program and find gainful employment. If you are struggling with a subject, they can pay a tutor to help you pass that subject.

Other than dishonorable – Just because someone served in the military doesn’t always make them eligible for VA benefits of any kind. Anything less than an honorable discharge can limit anything from whether you can get VA medical care to whether your service counts for Post-9/11 GI Bill eligibility. In this instance, Voc Rehab is one of the most flexible, as it is potentially available to anyone with an “other than dishonorable” discharge.

So far, Voc Rehab sounds like a pretty sweet deal, right? It is but all those extra goodies also come with extra strings so, read on.

Cons:

Hoops to jump through – Getting other VA education benefits is a pretty simple process – you serve your country, you earn your benefit, you apply to use it, you use it. Voc Rehab is not nearly so simple. The first step in the process is meeting with a Voc Rehab counselor, who will determine whether you meet the basic eligibility requirements. If you do, you will be given a long checklist to complete before VA makes a final determination on whether you get to participate. This checklist includes: aptitude testing to determine which careerfields might suit you, then determining which of those aren’t going to aggravate your disability, researching that careerfield to make sure that there are actually employment opportunities available, meeting with an academic advisor to determine what the degree program entails, and then going back to your Voc Rehab counselor to finalize your plan and getting a VA Voc Rehab Authorization Form (VA 28-1905) that can be taken to your school.

Permission to... – While other VA education benefits allow you to change your degree program or courseload at will, your Voc Rehab counselor will have to approve any and all changes you make to that original plan you two designed. You will meet with him/her once every term to go over your progress and your plan (including course choices) for the upcoming term and then you will need to be in contact with him/her any time there’s a change – you withdraw from a class, a class got cancelled and you had to find another one, you want to take a class that isn’t in your degree program. Your counselor gets final say. He/she even gets to determine if you get to continue in Voc Rehab (for example if you failed a couple of classes) or if you are out of the program.

VA controls your end date – Although you could qualify for up to 48 months of Voc Rehab education benefits, VA gets to decide how many you actually need to gain employment. If you use another VA program, Post-9/11 for example, you could use 24 months to complete a business degree, then use the final 12 months to also get an accounting degree. If Voc Rehab decides you only need 24 months to finish a business degree and they don’t think accounting is relevant, then you only get 24 months.

Minimal stipend – The final drawback of Voc Rehab is that, since it pays so much towards your other costs, the stipend you get isn’t all that great. At the 2012 rates (I’m using those because those are the ones on VA’s page at the moment), a Voc Rehab student with no dependents and attending undergraduate school full time would receive $585.11 a month. If you have dependents, then the rate goes up (one dependent - $725.78, two - $855.28, three or more - $62.34 for each additional dependent above two). Similar to the MGIB, the rate is prorated based on number of credits you take and you must be attending at least half time to get any housing.

There is one exception to this stipend rule and it’s a big one. Under Public Law 111-377, if you qualify for both Post-9/11 GI Bill and Vocational Rehabilitation and you elect to use Voc Rehab, you may do so at the Post-9/11 housing rate. Keep in mind, you have to choose this option (your Voc Rehab counselor will have you complete a form electing the Post-9/11 housing rate) and, if you do so, you may be subject to the same Post-9/11 housing rules. Meaning, if you are taking all online or online and hybrid classes, you may only get $714.20 a month, so this option may only be a good one if you are attending classes on campus (check with your voc rehab counselor to see if this requirement is in effect, since VA changes its rules often). Something else to keep in mind, if you started using Post-9/11 and then got accepted into Voc Rehab, you must have at least one day of Post-9/11 eligibility left in order to be able to qualify for this. (Details about Voc Rehab stipend amounts can be found at Here.)

Okay, as if that wasn’t enough to scramble your brain, let me leave you with a couple of last facts about Voc Rehab:

- Eligibility period – Generally, VA education benefits have what’s called a “delimiting date.” This is the time you have to use the benefit. For traditional MGIB, it’s 10 years from your date of separation from active duty. For Post-9/11, it’s 15 years from your date of separation. For Voc Rehab, it is generally 12 years from your date of separation or from the date you were first notified of your VA disability rating. While the delimiting dates for other VA education programs are hard and fast, they tend to be a tad more flexible with Voc Rehab, especially if the veteran can demonstrate that a service-connected condition has caused a serious employment handicap.

The 28-1905 and your SCO – One of the mistakes that I saw many Voc Rehab veterans make was assuming that, because Voc Rehab was supposed to pay for their tuition and fees, they didn’t have to do anything. Sadly, there is no magic VA fairy. Instead, it is the student’s responsibility to get in touch with the school’s SCO to be sure that he/she received the VA Form 28-1905 Authorization for Vocational Rehabilitation and that it has been entered into the school’s system. Failure to make contact with your SCO could mean that you aren’t going to get paid, your tuition and fees aren’t going to get paid and, possibly, you are going to get dropped out of your classes entirely.

As with all the VA education programs, what I’ve presented here is just the tip of the iceberg. If you have more questions, your first step should be to call a Voc Rehab counselor (the one closest to you can be found at the link I provided at the beginning of this post) or contact your school’s SCO.

© 2013 - 2016, Captain. All rights reserved.

130 thoughts on “Vocational Rehabilitation

  1. John

    Will the VA cut off my voc rehab if I got job in the field of my contract before I finish school?

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      John,

      Not necessarily. Some of it depends on what your VR&E plan was, some of it depends on whether what is on your VR&E plan is required for employment (short or long term) in that field, and some of it depends on your counselor. I recommend discussing the topic directly with your counselor to see how he/she feels about it.

      Sarah

      Reply
  2. Andrew

    can I get voc rehab to pay for personal training certifications such as ACSM, ISSA, ACE or even something like a TRX instructor course? If i can what would be the best way to present/word it to my counselor? I am currently a student studying exercise science.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Andrew,

      What Voc Rehab can pay for depends on a number of factors, such as: is it required for your to be employable in your field, is the organization granted the company accredited or does it meet industry standards, cost, and, if you are already in voc rehab, whether attaining a certification was part of your VR&E plan.

      As for how to approach your counselor, you would need to focus on the certifications relevancy to your employment chances. For example, is the certification required to be a personal trainer in your state or do job descriptions for personal trainers in your area list one of those certifications as a requirement or a recommendation? Information such as this are probably most likely to be successful in getting a counselor’s approval. (However, keep in mind that each counselor is different and it really comes down to what your agreed upon VR&E plan is.)

      Sarah

      Reply
  3. Sarah

    My struggle with Voc Rehab has been quite a sordid one and after almost a year and a half, the story isn’t over. My question is how does reimbursement work with student loans? Does all of the reimbursement go towards the student loans or only a portion (like the tuition portion)? In 2010, I was only eligible for 80% of my Post 9/11 but I became 50% service connected in Nov 2009. I was approved for Voc Rehab to complete my masters degree and my Voc Rehab councilor stated that I would get reimbursed for all of the years that I only got 80% of the benefits (he would extend 9/11 because I would only be a few months short of completing my masters). During all of the years I only received 80% of 9/11, I took out student loans. My councilor stated that my reimbursement would go to student loans but he keeps flip-flopping and staying that the tuition would go towards my student loans but I would get the difference in BAH etc. Can I please get some clarification?

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Sarah,

      I will need to do a little homework on this one. My instinct is that VA isn’t going to repay your loans-not directly, anyway. They could potentially pay the school the difference in tuition, then the school could reimburse you the tuition, which you could then use to pay the student loans. However, from what I have heard, VA has been reluctant in the last couple of years to backpay education completed before an individual becomes eligible for VA. I’ll look into it to give you a better answer.

      Also, when you switched from Post-9/11 to voc rehab, did you sign the form electing to receive Post-9/11 BAH instead of Voc Rehab? Also, I need to double check, but I thought VA changed the rules at one point and determined that, if you elected the Post-9/11 BAH, you would only receive the amount of Post-9/11 BAH that you qualified for initially – so, in your case, 80%. I will look into that, though, and let you know what I find out.

      Sorry I don’t have a better answer at the moment.

      Sarah

      Reply
  4. soon2007

    I have four months left of 9/11 GI-Bill left, I used what I had left on a Masters of Education degree. I have decided to apply to Occupational Therapy school, which is approximately 27-33 months long, dependent on the school that accepts me. If I am approved for Voc-Rehab, will this program help pay for the Occupational Therapy school even though I have only four months of 9/11 GI-Bill left? I am apprehensive about applying to Occupational Therapy school, because the cost of the school and the possible debt that I may incur. Thank you in advance.

    Reply
    1. sandsapper

      I have just been deemed eligible for Voc Rehab benefits. I go back next week to finalize everything. Hers what you need to know: First you obviously must have a disability rating. It’s 20% plus I believe. Second, and this is the big one, you MUST demonstrate that your disability makes you unable to work in the field that you are qualified for now. And the filed you are entering must be suitable for your disability. A very literal example would be that you are a musician but you lost your hearing in combat so now you want to be an accountant. If you have PTSD, sleep apnea etc then you have to get creative. If you are just looking to change fields because you want to make more money or don’t like your current job they will not approve you. However, if they do approve you then everything will be paid for. I would apply for the school you want and if you don’t get Voc Rehab then just withdraw your application.

      Reply
  5. Retroactive Induction" CONFUSED"

    As of 2/14/2016 I was deemed entitled for Ch 31 benefits. During the month of April my Ch 33 benefits were exhausted. During that time,Ch 33 only paid me at a rate of 60%. My Voc Rehab counselor was fairly new and was unsure about retroactive induction and its legality. In April of 2014 I was rated 30% SC disability and the following year 50%. Today I was contacted by my counselor after speaking with her supervisor who then informed her that not only would she be needing enrollment certifications and ledgers from the schools certifier for past 2 quarters but the now need that information dating back to my initial enrollment date of October 2013. She stated that they have to now add, subtract, prorate and put forth 40% (as it refers to tuition and fee’s, the book stipends and BAH) that I didn’t qualify for through Ch 33 because of the Retroactive induction. I’ve asked my counselor questions concerning the possibility from my records alone to be a large retroactive benefit and of course she fair new and was uncertain. Has any one ever heard of this or experienced this first hand and the possible process.

    Thank you for your valuable time

    Reply
  6. Jared

    I was on vocrehab for 2 quarters last year as I finished at a local community college and transferred to a four year university accross state. Since transferring I have not been on Voc rehab (almost a year now) and lost my school housing since I had to pay tuition and fees myself. My VRC is now telling me I cannot do my degree since I tested at a third grade level in math. Btw I just got an A in Calc. Also she’s citing a course I failed since transferring and have not been on any benefits. My GPA the two quarters I was on vocrehab was over a 3.0 average. Is this right can they stand on a 3.0 average while in the program is not suitable enough to continue training even if they think I’m severely handicapped at a third grade level? I’m lost as to what to do. I was told appealing would take 2-4 years

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Jacob,

      Voc Rehab can pay for an all online college. Whether it will or not depends on your individual voc rehab counselor, and whether he/she thinks it is the best option for you and if you are self-motivated enough to be successful in an all online setting. If you want to improve your chances, try to make a case for why that school is the best option for you. Does it offer a specific degree program that other schools in your area don’t? Does it have a job placement service that would help increase your employment opportunities? Does the online format make it easier to accommodate one of your disabilities? If you can justify why that school is the better option, you have a better chance of convincing your voc rehab counselor of that. However, just keep in mind that, ultimately, the counselor makes the final decision.

      Good luck!
      Sarah

      Reply
  7. chris

    Hi,

    I transferred all my Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits to my dependents with the exception of 1 month. My dependents have not used the benefit, however I prefer that they use this to go to school instead of me. My Question – Can I use Voc Rehab separately to go to school? I realize I must be approved and have a plan, I was wondering do I have 48 months of education separate from the 35 months I’ve transferred. thanks.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Chris,

      VA has recently changed the rule on this. In the past, Voc Rehab (also known as Ch 31 benefits) DID count in your 48 month total. However, per a recent presentation by VA:

      “Entitlement used under Ch31 does not count towards the 48-month entitlement limitation.”

      Details on this have not yet been released, but should be in the next few weeks.

      I hope this helps and please let me know if I can answer anything else for you.

      Sarah

      Reply
  8. brown

    Hi,
    Thanks for your assistance in advance. I am a drilling reservist who was injured while on ADT orders, and currently enrolled in Line of Duty benefits with my NOSC. I’ve never deployed, but did 6 months on bootcamp/initial training, and 87 days on ADT orders when I was injured. My compensation rating is under review. I only have a dd214 for Active duty under my initial training.

    I have a few questions concerning my eligibility for the VR&E:

    1. Am I eligible to apply for VR&E before my rating is determined although I did not receive a dd214 for the time I was injured?

    2. If approved for the VR&E, can I use it attend a non traditional school, like a coding bootcamp that is not accredited? Or is the VR&E only used for accredited programs?

    Questions concerning post 9/11 gi bill:

    3. To your knowledge, may I be eligible for the 9/11 GI bill, given that I was never served Active Duty Time other than training?

    4. If I am eligible for 9/11 GI bill, is the percentage of the bill that I qualify for calculated on my ADT/IADT times, or do I automatically receive the full amount.

    Thanks again!

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      “Brown,”

      First, I’m sorry to hear you were injured during training. I also apologize for the delayed response to your questions and for the short answer to those questions, which is: you’re really going to have to ask VA.

      Ordinarily, active duty personnel can apply to VR&E before their rating is complete if they obtain a memorandum from the VA stating that they have a 20% or more disability rating or if they are participating in “the Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) or are certified by the military as having a severe injury or illness that may prevent them from performing their military duties.” (per the voc rehab webpage)

      Also, normally, you have to serve more than 24 months before VA will consider your training time as counting towards your Post-9/11 eligibility. Additionally, as a reservist, you generally have to serve a minimum of 90 days on Active Duty under one of the following Title 10 sections: 688, 12301(a), 12301(d), 12303(g), 12302, or 12304 for it to be considered qualifying service. These sections do not usually include IADT, but you would have to look at your orders to see which section you were activated under.

      I know there are a lot of qualifiers in that answer and, ultimately, VA has the final decision in all cases and your injury means that the usual rules don’t apply. Since yours is one of those cases that doesn’t follow the basic rules, the best option for you would be to apply for both benefits and let VA work with DoD to determine which benefits you qualify and at which rate.

      Sorry I don’t have a better answer for you.

      Sarah

      Reply
      1. brown

        Thanks Sarah!

        Since my post, I received a 70% rating from the VA for my injuries. I also applied for both the VR&E and Post 9/11 2-3 weeks ago, but have not received a response. So I will just sit it out and wait, but will post the response here so that it may benefit someone else in a similar case as mine.

        Best.

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Wonderful! Glad to hear that you received your rating. You should be hearing something soon about both programs. If you don’t, let me know and I can point you in the right direction to follow up on those applications.

          Thanks for posting about your situation and how it has changed – that doesn’t always happen and the feedback certainly helps me and my readers.

          Sarah

          Reply
          1. brown

            Hi Sarah,

            I saw on the E-benefits site that I was approved for the VR&E. The only weird thing I see is that the date was back-dated to last year, the first day that I was released from AD. I shall contact them soon about the questions I had above.

            Hopefully, I will hear something soon about the Post 911.

            Thanks again for your assistance.

          2. Captain

            Post author

            They may have backdated your approval to the date you became eligible. It won’t really change anything, unless you were in school at the time and you want to try to get voc rehab to pay for that training as well.

            Best of luck and glad I could help,
            Sarah

  9. Chris

    Please be patient, this is complicated for me to explain. I cannot find the answer to ‘how to convert Chapter 31 months of remaining eligibility into Chapter 33.’ I have read this conversation from September 2014 through 20160309. My 1991 DD214 was honorable. I enlisted into the National Guard prior to my ETS. Post 9/11 I was activated for duty CONUS. I initiated my pursuit of an undergrad degree in 1998 using the Chapter 31 rather than my Chapter 30 benefits. I was called to activation and deployed, thus stopped utilizing my education benefits. I served 6 tours since 2003 and qualify for 36 months under Chapter 33. I was initially removed from one degree path and set on another due to limitations and approved to a Chapter 31 extension. Medically retired now. I have successfully transferred my Chapter 33 benefits to my child. We are currently applying for her use of this benefit. I was originally informed that my transferred Chapter 33 benefits were not effected by my use of Chapter 31. I recently the DVA education number [(888)442-4551] and was told that I have 36 months remaining. I am now being informed that my pervious use of Chapter 31 is subtracted from this benefit that we are applying for.
    My regional Vocational Rehab office informed me that I have used 22months 22days of Chapter 31 benefits, thus told that my remaining Chapter 31 benefits are 11months 20days. Combined this appears to be only 34months 12days. Where are is the remaining 13months 22days?
    I do not know how many months of benefits my child receives.

    Reply
    1. Kim

      Something recently passed and if you have never used your Chapter 33 benefits and use only Chapter31 your benefits from the post 9/11(or Chapter33) are not eaten away. So essentially your 48months of entitlement from Chapter 31 should not have taken any time away from your Chapter 33benefits. Get In contact with the post 9/11GI Bill and discuss this with them.

      Reply
  10. Brett Crawford

    Is there a GPA requirement if I want to use vocational rehabilitation while taking all of my classes online at Southern New Hampshire University? I am a transfer student from a traditional college, however, SNHU starts everyone out with a 2.0 GPA. I will have 5 days remaining of the Post 9/1 G.I. Bill in June, I am married with one child, should I use my remaining Post 9/11 benefits? How is MAH affected if I’m considered a full time online student either way? My counselor told me that vocational rehab would not cover an online school unless I have a 2.5 GPA. In order for me to achieve this at this point I will have to score a 4.0 for the next 7 months. Should I freeze me Post 9/11 G.I Bill before it runs out? HELP!!!!

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Brett,
      I’ll dig into the regulation to be sure, but, based on my experience, there is no specific GPA requirement for attending online only courses through vocational rehabilitation. However, voc rehab counselor’s have a lot of leeway when determining a veteran’s voc rehab plan, including whether they will approve online classes or not.

      As for the housing allowance question:
      – If you take all online courses using your Post-9/11 GI Bill, your housing allowance will be reduced to $783 a month for full-time enrollment (that number will go up Aug 1 to $805.50).
      – If you switch to voc rehab and elect the Post-9/11 housing allowance, the same rules apply.
      – If you switch to voc rehab and elect to receive the voc rehab stipend, that is slightly less–the voc rehab full-time rate, with no dependents, is currently $605.44.
      – If you are eligible to claim your wife and child as dependents, it is slightly more than the Post-9/11 rate at $885.00 (the voc rehab rates will go up 1 Oct 2016, but VA has not posted those rates yet).

      You can find all of the Voc Rehab and Voc Rehab with Post-9/11 election rates at: http://www.benefits.va.gov/vocrehab/subsistence_allowance_rates.asp

      Whether to continue to use the remaining days of your Post-9/11, or hold off on them until you start vocational rehabilitation, would be your choice. However, a few things I recommend considering:
      – Do you have another way to pay for your tuition and fees currently?
      – Do you have other income, enough to afford living without the Post-9/11 BAH?
      – If you use your Post-9/11 and then switch to vocational rehabilitation, can you make do with the vocational rehabilitation stipend allowance, which, as I pointed out above, may be slightly more or slightly less than what the online Post-9/11 rate is?

      Just a note about “freezing” your Post-9/11 GI Bill. If you are currently enrolled and using your GI Bill to pay for the current semester, you would not be able to “freeze” your GI Bill currently without going to your school certifying official (SCO) and asking that they change your current certification to exclude some or all of your current classes. Doing this will result in an overpayment, meaning you would have to pay back tuition, fees, books, and housing allowance received for this semester. If your current semester ends in May, for example, and you want to “freeze” your GI Bill benefits after that, you would need to contact your SCO and tell him/her that, although you are enrolled in classes for the June semester, you do not want to use your GI Bill to pay for them. This effectively “freezes” your remaining entitlement for use at a later date, but it also means that you will have to pay for tuition, fees, etc.

      I hope this helps and please let me know if I can answer anything else for you.

      Sarah

      Reply
      1. Kris Ward

        Hi, If I am in the process of applying for vocrehab and am about to freeze my gibill to make sure I ha e at least a day remaining, but I cannot stop with the current program I am in for a Masters Degree. I will have to pay for one class at least.. my question is, if I am approved for vocrehab will they reemburse me for the class I had to pay for?

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Kris,

          I sincerely apologize for taking so long to respond – I’ve been in the process of relocating and starting a new job and have fallen behind in my other commitments. If you have already solved this issue, please post what the result was for others to read. In the meantime, I will provide my answer, in case you haven’t resolved this or in case someone else can benefit from it.

          You can “freeze” your GI Bill benefit by not using it to pay for a class or for an entire semester. As long as you have not hit your delimiting date (15 years after you leave service), your remaining entitlement will remain for you to use at a later date. If you are then accepted into voc rehab, you can elect to receive the Post-9/11 BAH for the time that you are in voc rehab (at least until your Post-9/11 eligibility runs out – or that was a change that was made at one point; will double check this). However, while voc rehab COULD pay for the classes that you paid for out-of-pocket, there is no guarantee that they will. Word on the street is that they have been reluctant to do this for the past couple of years.

          I’ll need to look into what happens with Post-9/11 BAH if they do back-pay the class you paid out-of-pocket. It shouldn’t be an issue, but I wouldn’t want to say that definitively until I have had a chance to look into it.

          Best,
          Sarah

          Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Sharline,

      Yes. There is no restriction regarding working part time and using your education benefits.

      Sarah

      Reply
      1. Rob

        Hello, I have a few questions
        I hope that you can help me with. I have used up about 34 of my 36 Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits up to this point. I was discharged in 2012 (Honorable) and have been in school up until last fall. I started struggling in 2014 and 2015 before leaving school summer of 2015 for what I now know was Chronic PTSD, and a TBI I suffered in combat. I am currently going through the service connection process, and have already applied for the VR&E as I am sure to be connected very soon (already have done my QTC apps).

        I am currently in a community college full time improving my grades and preparing to show the VR&E that I can still succeed in school, as well as knocking out my general education requirements I had not done at my old school. I have over 90 credits done (undergrad) and hope to only need to solid semesters to complete my undergrad if approved by VR&E down the road. I am not using my remaining Post 9/11 benefits for community college IOT save my last 2 months for a potential VR&E plan.

        With that being said, do you think the VR&E would approve me to not only finish my last 2 semesters of undergrad at my old school, then pay for my masters degree? If I show them that I want to attain a job that requires a masters degree, do you think they would approve the finishing of an undergrad and a masters program?

        Also, would seminary (Masters in religion based discipline) be approved being that I need seminary IOT teach the Bible/Theology at a Christian college (professor)?

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Rob,

          I apologize for the delayed response; I have been ill and that has put be behind on conducting research and answering questions.

          Congrats on persevering despite your PTSD and TBI!

          Very smart of you to save those last two months of Post-9/11, as the Post-9/11 BAH is significantly more than the VR&E stipend.

          Ordinarily a veteran is limited to 48 months of any combination of VA education benefits. However, there is a waiver process for this for voc rehab and it is possible that they can pay for your last two semesters and part or all of your master’s. Whether they will or not will be based largely on whether it is determined that you have an employment handicap, how serious that employment handicap is, and whether they determine that the master’s degree is required for you to complete your rehabilitation plan and pursue gainful employment. The specifics of when a waiver can be used can be found here: http://www.benefits.va.gov/WARMS/docs/admin28/M28R/Part_VII/M28R_pt07_ch04_secA.pdf Specifically in section 4.05.

          As for whether they would pay for seminary school: There is no specific list of approved degrees programs for VR&E. Instead, it will come down to: the results of your aptitude test, your service-connected conditions and how this new career path can be used to minimize their impact on your employment, the market for that careerfield, the requirement for a seminary master’s in order to qualify for a job in that careerfield, and your voc rehab counselor’s opinion on whether that is the best employment path for you. The more questions you can answer for your voc rehab counselor–such as how this alleviates complications from your service-connected conditions, admissions requirements to the seminary, degree requirements, job listings for the teaching job you want showing that a master’s in a religious discipline is required for those jobs, an explanation on why a seminary vs. a regular school is the better option, etc. – the better your chances of being able to go that route.

          I hope this helps. Best of luck and please let me know if I can answer anything else for you.

          Sarah

          Reply
      2. Ryan E Maddings

        If I want to work full time while utilizing VocRehab benefits is that allowable?

        Also, if I found a company that I want to work with as an independent contractor not necessarily a W2 “job” but in the field I am going to school for is that allowable? Would that be considered a change in my plan?

        Would I get in trouble if I called up my VocRehab counselor one day after I finish my degree and say that I don’t need the program anymore because I found a company that I want to work for already? Are there any stipulations on this?

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Ryan,

          There is no prohibition as far as employment goes while using Voc Rehab, unless you have an IU rating. How it impacts your plan largely depends on your counselor, though. The purpose of voc rehab is to get you gainfully employed. If you can do that without voc rehab, then your counselor could determine that you are no longer eligible for the program. However, as “independent contractor” can sometimes be a precarious position and completing your degree and whatever associated voc rehab programs your counselor recommended for you increases your chances of maintaining that employment, it may have no impact at all. The only one who knows your voc rehab plan (aside from you) and can make this determination is your counselor. (Without knowing the details on your plan, program of study, and the company, I really can’t even hazard a guess.)

          My recommendation would be to continue with your voc rehab plan – it certainly can’t hurt your chances with the company, can it? And discuss the available options with your voc rehab counselor as hypotheticals (what ifs). It is possible there might be a third option he/she is aware of that you aren’t, such as converting your time as an “independent contractor” into an official internship with the company.
          Hope this helps,

          Sarah

          Reply
  11. Mark

    I am a veteran with 60% service connected disability. I am a logistics data analyst that looks at a monitor 8 hours a day reviewing numbers. My vision becomes blurry and I end up with headaches all the time. I do the job but it aggravates me tremendously. I have been applying to Occupational Therapy Schools for 3 years, and have finally been accepted to start in the fall of 2016. I am uncertain if VR&E would benefit me. Any feedback would be grateful.

    Reply
    1. Nick Savage

      I really do not understand the question fully.

      If you have a handicap that prevents you from doing your job and are at least 20 percent disabled, then yes Voc Rehab can pay for an OT program. You just have to apply and be accepted, They will pay for your school, books and training materials as well as give you a monthly stipend.

      You need to start the application process though, since it has to go to your regional VA office and then forwarded to your local Voc Rehab office. Then you have to go in for an orientation and then be scheduled to meet with a counselor who will then determine if you are eligible.

      I am a Nurse and cannot work as a nurse due to medications I am on, so I am retraining for a job in computer programming. The only problem I could see is by being in healthcare, quite a bit of your time is working on a computer writing notes and reading orders. So if the counselor knows this then they could say that the occupation you want would still aggravate your condition.

      Reply
    2. Captain

      Post author

      Mark,

      If you qualify for VR&E, it can certainly help you. In addition to the education benefits, you could have access to job training programs, internships, job placement assistance, and other benefits. While the approval process has several steps, it sounds like it might be worth it for your situation.

      Two things that would help your case: 1) you will need to show why being an OT would relieve your disability, as opposed to continuing or worsening the condition and 2) you will have to show that you would be employable at the completion of your studies, essentially you have to prove that there is a market in your area for occupational therapists. There will be other things that VA will consider in determining whether you are eligible for VR&E, but those are a good starting point. Please let me know if I can answer anything else for you.

      Sarah

      Reply
  12. Dan

    Hi,
    Thanks for the informative site. I’m currently enrolled in VR&E and am set to finish school this fall. I had a recent increase to “rated 100%” and am unclear what this means going forward into the next phase of training. In the M21-1MR it states this: “VA continues to pay 100 percent disability compensation to a Veteran who secures employment under the special program until the Veteran has worked continuously for at least 12 months.” But, I also read elsewhere that veterans may be liable to pay back any difference if/ when they get rescheduled after completing their program (e.g. a veteran’s benefits are reduced from 100% to say 80%, then the veteran must back pay the 20% difference). Any thoughts? And if a veteran must pay back any difference, is it retroactive to the award date? Thank you again…

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Dan,

      I am still digging through materials to find the most comprehensive answer to this. The answer is that employment could, potentially, impact your rating – as the VA rating scale is based on how much, by percentage, your disability impacts your earning ability. This is a bigger issue if you have a 100% IU, or Individual Employability, rating versus a traditional 100% rating. It can also be an issue if you are coming up for your disability reevaluation, which usually happens around the 4-5 year mark after a disability award has been given, and your condition(s) for which you were awarded the 100% rating have been found to improve significantly in your every day environment. This product from Syracuse University’s Institute for Military and Veterans Affairs, pages 30-35, explains it best. http://vets.syr.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/BenefitsGuidebook.pdf

      I’ll keep digging and see what else I come up with. Sorry I don’t have a more thorough answer at the moment.

      Reply
    2. Captain

      Post author

      Daniel,

      I was reading through the M21-1 and found the part that you quoted earlier regarding the 12 months:

      Veterans awarded 100 percent disability compensation based upon unemployability may still request an evaluation. If they are found eligible, they may participate in a VR&E program and receive help in getting a job.
      VA continues to pay 100 percent disability compensation to a Veteran who secures employment under the special program until the Veteran has worked continuously for at least 12 months.

      That information comes specifically from Part IX, Subpart i, Chapter 1, Section A “Special Programs for Unemployable Veterans.” It doesn’t specifically say IU, but it implies it.

      Also, in M28-2, Part II, Cht 1.07 has this to say regarding a change in your disability rating:

      (a) Severance. Severance of service connection will require discontinuance of chapter 31 benefits. The effective date of the termination (the last pay date) will be the last day of the month in which the severance becomes final or the last date of attendance or approved leave status, whichever occurs first. In general, this date will also be the last date that compensation benefits are paid. The VR&C Division will provide the Adjudication Division with a VA Form 28‑1905 authorizing the appropriate termination date. The Adjudication Division will establish a control to ensure the timely receipt of the VA Form 28‑1905.

      (b) Decrease in Evaluation. A decrease in the combined disability evaluation to less than a compensable degree will have no effect on the status of the case as long as the veteran has been inducted into and continues to participate in the chapter 31 program. Once the veteran is placed in either discontinued or rehabilitated status, benefit payments can no longer be authorized.

      So, (a) says that, if you are suddenly found to have no service connection, you can no longer participate in VR&E and the last day you would be eligible for that money would be the last day of the month in which your severance becomes final. In (b), it says that if you were reduced to less than the 10% rating, you would still be able to participate as long as you remained in the program and/or until your status was changed to discontinued or rehabilitated. Neither section mentions having to pay any money back and the only way I can see that happening is if (a) or (b) happens and they don’t process it quickly enough and keep paying you at your previous rate AFTER they change your rating. It is entirely possible that could happen. In which case, you would want to watch your bank account and make sure you set aside any money they pay after that date at the 100% rate, because they will come back for it.

      Hopefully this gives you some solid answers. I’ll let you know if I find anything else.

      Sarah

      Reply
  13. Dean

    Quick question. I’m about to enter in my bachelor degree program in June and my post 9/11 would be exhausted just over half way over into the degree if I don’t use my vocal rehab but I will because I’m approved for 40%. I have three questions. 1. Can I transfer from post 9/11 to my voc rehab benefits in the middle of completing my degree ? 2.I want to get a head start on my voc rehab application so once I get approve, do you automatically get transfer to voc rehab? Or can you get approved early and wait to sign over until your last day on the post 9/11
    3. How long is your voc rehab application good for until u have to reapply?

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Dean,

      You can transfer to voc rehab at any point after you are approved and at any point in your degree. However, once you are approved, your counselor will expect you to get started as soon as possible. That doesn’t mean, though, that if you are in the middle of a semester using Post-9/11 that you couldn’t start voc rehab the following semester-that is entirely possible.

      If you are accepted into voc rehab, however, there isn’t really any advantage to sticking with Post-9/11. Voc Rehab will pay all of your tuition and fees and all of your book costs. And you can elect to collect the Post-9/11 BAH instead of the Voc Rehab stipend. And, if voc rehab approves a bachelor’s study plan, they can extend your eligibility to cover the entire program.

      However, just because you are 40% doesn’t guarantee you will be found eligible for voc rehab or that they would approve your current degree choice. If you are considering voc rehab, I would suggest you go ahead and start the approval process. It can take awhile to accomplish and you don’t want to run out of Post-9/11 eligibility before starting voc rehab, as the voc rehab stipend is much lower than the BAH. If you don’t get approved, or you get approved but they don’t approve your current degree plan, then at least you have time to consider your options and potentially develop other revenue sources once you run out of Post-9/11.

      Hope this helps,
      Sarah

      Reply
      1. Dean

        The thing is that I’m in a accelerated school which u take a different class every month instead of an normal semester in college. Also how long can it take for your application to get approved ?

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Dean,

          If the program is approved for Post-9/11, it shouldn’t be a problem getting it converted to voc rehab. You might check with your school certifying official and see if anyone has ever used voc rehab for the program before…chances are you aren’t the first.

          The application process, as with most things with VA, depends on who is doing the processing. I’ve seen the entire voc rehab process-application and eligibility determination, testing and evaluation, plan development, etc.–happen in as little as a couple of weeks or as long as four, five, six months. It depends on how complicated your case is and how motivated your voc rehab counselor is.

          Sarah

          Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Dan,

      No, you may only collect one benefit at a time. If you qualify for Post-9/11 GI Bill and you have remaining entitlement, you may elect to receive that housing allowance instead of the voc rehab stipend.

      Sarah

      Reply
  14. Par

    I’m thinking of getting my M.A. education. Please advise what is the best way to use my education benefits: Post-9/11 first then VRE, or VRE then Post-9/11, or use both? And why so? ty.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Par,

      If you qualify for VRE and they approve an MA in Education, then that is, for the most part, the better way to go. VRE will pay all of your tuition and fees, as well as books, while Post-9/11 has a tuition and book cap. Also, if you qualify for both, you can elect to collect the Post-9/11 housing allowance amount while you are using VRE, which is significantly more than the regular VRE stipend. And VRE generally pays up to 48 months of benefits, while Post-9/11 is limited to 36.

      The downsides to doing VRE are that you do have to be approved, getting into the program requires more steps than Post-9/11, and your VRE counselor has more control over your program (you have to meet with him/her every semester to go over your progress, you can’t decide to change your program without his/her approval, etc.). If any of that bothers you, then looking for an MA program at a school that participates in the Yellow Ribbon program might be an alternative.

      Hope this helps,
      Sarah

      Reply
      1. Jessica

        This is my first time posting on WordPress so I apologize if this isn’t how it works, but I couldn’t find an add comment option so this may be a reply to someone else’s (sorry!)

        I’m wondering if there is a minimum service requirement to be eligible for Voc Rehab? I just found out about the program and I’m very interested. I have a VA claim in process right now after being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis earlier this year. I was assured that I will be approved at a minimum 30% rating.

        I was honorably discharged, however I did not complete my first enlistment as I found out my son had congenital heart disease and would require several surgeries so I decided to separate. Will this affect my eligibility for Voc Rehab, as it does with the GI Bill?

        Also, in your opinion, would I be able to pursue a BS in Security Risk Analysis/Cyber Security through an accredited university (Penn State) but online? With my relapsing/remitting condition I would hate to miss school due to symptoms, dr appts, infusions, etc. Is that a case-by-case basis? Or is what I’ve read about no online true?

        I’m currently Lead Field Technician at a small local IT company but since my diagnosis my duties and hours have been cut drastically. With strictly field experience (which aggravates my disability) and no education, I’ve been unsuccessful in obtaining less physically demanding employment in my field. My main goal is to hopefully be hired in the federal sector for an Information Security/Information Assurance position, which will require a Bachelors.

        Thank you so much for your time and consideration,
        Jessica

        Reply
        1. Jessica,

          I believe that if you completed 180 days active duty and honorably discharged you qualify as a veteran, If that is true then you qualify for the Voc-Rehab with your 30% disability. I would also look into the Wounded Warrior Program because with the 30% and your interested in working for the Federal government veterans get a hiring preference in the hiring process. Also when you are in contact with your Voc-Rehab counselor ask them what all you qualify for. You should be given a computer and other assistance. For the Voc-Rehab program you have to be either un-employed or under employed. You can be working and qualify for the program. One more thing if when you find a job and if it’s with the government and say it’s a internship there is a monthly stipend during the course of the internship make sure your counselor does there du-diligence. I hope this helps you, Good Luck!

          Reply
        2. Captain

          Post author

          Jessica,

          The two main things VA is going to look at regarding your eligibility for Vocational Rehabilitation (VR&E) are: the character of your discharge and whether you have a service-connected disability rating of at least 10%. Once eligibility has been established, they will then do a comprehensive assessment to determine which VR&E services you require/are entitled to. Your length of service shouldn’t be an issue, as it would be with Post-9/11. However, every situation is different and you should apply for the benefit so that VA can review your file and determine your eligibility.

          As far as pursuing a BS in Security Risk Analysis/Cyber Security, your best bet is to research the job market so that you can demonstrate to your voc rehab counselor that there are jobs in that field (ones that won’t aggravate your disability) AND that they require undergraduate education.

          As for online coursework, voc rehab does not have the same requirement for in-residence courses as Post-9/11 GI Bill does. Instead, that would be a decision made by your voc rehab counselor, so you’ll want to make your case (which I think is a good one) to him/her once you are assigned a counselor. Also, whether you are approved for online courses or not, I recommend you contact the school’s disability coordinator as soon as you are accepted to the school. The disability coordinator can help you with special accommodations that will work around some of the issues (dr. appts, infusions, etc.) that you mentioned and any other symptoms/circumstances that might develop due to your condition.

          I hope this helps you get started. Please let me know if I can answer anything for you and best of luck,
          Sarah

          Reply
          1. Jessica

            Thanks so much for the wealth of information Sarah! You absolutely did and answered the questions I couldn’t seem to find elsewhere.

  15. Anthony Johnson

    I was in Voc-Rehab finished college and was under employed so I was able to stay in the program and continue to look for work closer to my skill level. I found the job it is a 3 yr. internship program. Once excepted into the program my counselor tells me I’m a successful graduate of the program and therefore he was ending my benefits in the program. Well since then he has retired and I find out that being that I’m in a “OJT” position I still qualify for the monthly stipend and should have not been released from the program. So now I’m petitioning the VA to re-instate me can anyone suggest where I could find regulations or supporting information to help me build a case to get re-instated? I do have a meeting set up with the Voc-Rehab head official in the L.A. Office and I’m expecting to get some better guidance from there. I should tell you I came in the program from NC and found the job in CA so I have relocated to CA and trying to get this started. My local V.A. counselor is of no help I called and asked for help around Feb-Mar 2015 I just seen the counselor for the first time 24 Nov 2015 this is un-acceptable. And the individual is no help at all.

    Reply
  16. Stephen Vergopulos

    I have 1 month and 14 days left of Post 9/11 G.I. and put my VONAPP in for my Voc Rehab, I know post 9/11 will not drop me mid semester and continue to pay my living stipend, if I get accepted into the Voc Rehab after my 1 month and 14 days of Post 9/11 expire, does me getting the extension because I am still enrolled and receiving those benefits grant me to post 9/11 Stipend, or does it not matter, once my 1 month 14 days is up, I will not be eligible for the better stipend. Sorry this sound confusing, just trying to get answers.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Stephen,

      You must have eligibility remaining in order to elect the Post-9/11 stipend. Technically, based on what you are telling me, your eligibility ends in one month and 14 days. Although Post-9/11 does extend payments until the end of a semester if you are currently enrolled in classes and your eligibility expires during that semester. However, while this extends your benefits, it does not extend your actual eligibility.

      It is possible that your voc rehab application could be processed before your eligibility runs out. If it does, be sure to request to sign the form electing Post-9/11 stipend (and get a copy for your records) as soon as possible. If your application isn’t approved before it expires, but is approved during the semester where you are still receiving Post-9/11 benefits, it doesn’t hurt to ask your voc rehab counselor, in case there is some hidden loophole I’m not aware of.

      Good luck!
      Sarah

      Reply
  17. Jim

    Can change your major while on voc rehab? I’m a business major but I was thinking about switch to kinesiology. I’ve only taken one semester in business.

    Reply
    1. NicK savage

      As long as your counselor approves it, you can do anything. If they do not then you need to ask for a letter of denial then you can appeal it. If they will not give you a letter then send a certified letter asking for a major change. That should get you the denial. When you appeal it. You have to have a good reason eg; job outlook is not good, your health has changed and you need a different career. If your major is only changing a little you should not have a hard time. Like web designer to web developer.

      Reply
    2. Captain

      Post author

      Jim,

      Yes, you can request a change in major. Contact your voc rehab counselor and request a meeting to discuss it. My suggestion for things to take to the meeting include:
      – a new degree plan, also sometimes called a degree audit (this can be obtained from your academic advisor and will show how many of your current classes would transfer to the new degree and how many additional classes you would need to take) – be sure to ask about any required prerequisites or program admission requirements that may not be listed on the degree plan
      – proof that your new, desired careerfield is in demand in the job market in your area

      Keep in mind that voc rehab is focused on getting you gainly employed, so you are going to have to make the case as to why this new degree program will help you get there. As with your initial entrance into voc rehab, your counselor will also have to consider if/how this new careerfield would impact your disabilities as well as whether this aligns your aptitude testing results, so just be prepared to discuss those if need be.

      Hope this helps and good luck!
      Sarah

      Reply
  18. Julie

    I’m glad I stumbled onto this post. Perhaps you can assist me, I am trying to determine the number of traditional (butt in seat) credits required to get full housing allowance using voc rehab benefits. I have elected the post 9/11 GI Bill and have been approved for 48 months training. I understand the 50% rule. I will be attending full time, however some of my courses are only available as hybrid or online. For example, if only one of my four courses is on campus and the others are online/hybrid, will I get the full allowance?

    Reply
    1. Nick Savage

      I have been in the program for a month now. I also had concerns. I had a very bad first counselor that would flat out lie to me. I knew she was lying because I can read the m28r for myself.

      I then got another counselor when I started school, they separate there counselors into schools and who is going to which. I was very lucky as mine is a medically discharged Air Force Vet who is 100 V.A. disabled who went through Voc Rehab. He saw how bad the counselors were and so that is what he went to school for.

      After I got him, he told me this. If you go full time, no matter what type of school you are paid the stipend. I am in a 8 week semester program, so I have to take 6 credits per semester to get a full stipend. It does not matter if I go to a traditional school or online school. He even pulled it up on the computer to make sure the last counselor put it in, on the screen it shows I am to get 505.00 for the first of November, it is prorated since I didn’t start school till October 5th.

      The counselors have a sheet they go by and it tells them what kind of program and what is considered full time, part time etcetera. Just ask for it, you may be able to find it online.

      The first counselor flat out lied, I am a heavy patient with bad knees, back and joint pain. I asked for a special desk and chair and she implied maybe I should not go to school and be on Independent living services, my new counselor said my home is my training site so anything I need to justify it. Get a note from Physical Medicine and rehab saying they will not pay for it. Find what I need on Amazon with the note and justification and he would get it approved. He also gave me a very good tip. Don’t just go find the most expensive item. Be realistic, I picked a 700 dollar computer, a 100 dollar desk, and a 200 dollar chair. He said the was very inline with what they would approve.
      Hope this helps and just contact me if you have questions.

      Reply
      1. Nick Savage

        I should say I am not post 911 but he said it goes for all Voc Rehab students. He said online counts just like in class. Is he correct, I have no idea since I do not have to test that out.

        Reply
        1. Pete

          I was wondering if I were to elect the Post 9/11 BAH, would I get half if I attended full-time, but all online classes?

          Reply
          1. Captain

            Post author

            Pete,

            If you are using the Post-9/11 GI Bill, attend full-time with only online classes, and you qualify for Post-9/11 at the 100% rate, your current BAH would be $783.00 a month. This rate changes slightly each year and you can find the rate changes here: http://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/resources/benefits_resources/rates/ch33/ch33rates080115.asp

            If you are using voc rehab, elect to receive the Post-9/11 stipend, qualify for the Post-9/11 at the 100% rate, and attend full-time, you currently receive the full BAH regardless of whether the classes are online or on campus. The rates for that can also be found at the above link.

            Hope this helps and please let me know if I can answer any more questions for you,
            Sarah

            Please let me know if I can answer anything else for you,
            Sarah

    2. Captain

      Post author

      Julie,

      If you are using regular Post-9/11 – not voc rehab with the Post-9/11 stipend election – then you have to have at least one on-campus, non-hybrid class in order to receive the full housing stipend. There was talk for awhile that those voc rehab students getting the Post-9/11 stipend might have to follow those same rules, but I have not seen that materialize. Now, how many credits total you need to get full housing under either program depends on the number of weeks in the semester/term/quarter and how many credits your school says equals full time. Generally speaking, 12 credits in a regular semester (15-19 weeks) is full time for undergraduate courses. If your school follows an untraditional scheduling system, then I would discuss it with both your voc rehab counselor and your school certifying official and they can tell you how many credits you need to be full time.

      I hope this helps and please let me know if you have any further questions. Good luck with your studies!

      Sarah

      Reply
  19. Scott

    I googled Together We Served before joining and it led me here thankfully.
    My question was on this thread on Voc Rehab. My MGIB expired in 1990.. My VA disability rating award was in 2011. Would I possibly be elgible for Voc Rehab?
    Thanks in advance and i have bookmarked afterthedd214 site and will be returning. Much needed information on here!

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Scott,

      Glad you found the site and that you are finding it so helpful!

      Based on timeline alone – 2011 – you should be within the eligibility window. There are a number of other factors that play in to it, of course, but I would definitely encourage you to apply. You can do that online and the details are here: http://www.benefits.va.gov/vocrehab/

      Let me know if I can answer anything else for you,
      Sarah

      Reply
  20. Daisy

    I just found out my voc rehab case is still open. I’m unemployed again and was told to try getting voc rehab again. I did all my research that was told to do so by counselor from the first time and he would not help me any further and I feel he didn’t want me in the program. I was disappointed and said forget it. Then years later I hear about a lot of counselors were not doing their job in helping out veterans the way they should have in the voc rehab program. Do you have any suggestions on how to reproach the program so I can become eligible to get a graduate degree which only takes 1.5 years to finish.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Daisy,

      Unfortunately, the voc rehab experience depends a lot on the counselor. I would suggest reapplying – http://www.benefits.va.gov/vocrehab/ – and seeing if you are still eligible (without dates on when you used it before, that’s difficult to tell).

      As far the graduate degree part, I would start by establishing which job you are looking at and finding several job postings that stipulate that a graduate degree is required/recommended for that position. I would then take those with you to your first appointment with your new counselor. Since the objective for voc rehab is to get you employed, they will want to see that there is a market for that job and that the degree you are looking at will help you get that job. Of course, there are more steps in the process, but that’s a good place to start.

      Let me know if I can help any further,
      Sarah

      Reply
    2. Nick Savage

      Start with a certified letter, reading the m28r, finding things that point your position as right and back up with chapter 38s. They need to send you a denial letter before you can fight it. By sending the certified letter you are pushing there hand. I sent one certified letter, at the bottom, i put. “If denied please send me an appeal forum, as well as the name of the person in charge of voc rehab for the Waco office and also the federal level. I would also like to know who certifies you to be a counselor in Texas.

      Thats all I said, yes I was letting them know I knew my rights and I would even complain to the state of Texas if they did not do there job properly, The V.A. may not back us up most the time. They are certified to work in Texas under there Texas license and they back us up.

      Reply
  21. Tamara

    How does the tutor assistance work? With the vocational rehab, can a veteran get a tutor at any time? Or does he/she have to perform poorly first? Can he/she pick the tutor that he/she wants? Is there a maximum amount/year or per hour? Thanks!

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Tamara,

      That is largely dependent on the vocational rehabilitation counselor. Generally, the tutor has to be someone approved by voc rehab or the school, though it can also be someone who has successfully passed the class before. And the tutor will have to complete a W-4 in order to receive payment. If a student feels he/she is struggling, they should contact their counselor and let them know. The counselor may require some sort of proof that the student is struggling – test grades or a note from the professor. They don’t want a student to fail a class if it can be avoided, but they also have to justify spending the money. As with most things voc rehab, contact your counselor to see what they are willing to authorize. Also, check with the school. Many schools offer free tutoring resources to their students.

      Hope this helps,
      Sarah

      Reply
    2. Nick Savage

      Voc rahab states they will help you to obtain your goals. You do not have to be failing class to get a tutor, but you do have to request it. If denied then appeal it. Tutors are and should be simple to get. I said should. Just depends on if your counselor wants to do the paperwork is all.

      Reply
  22. Shuneque

    I am very confused. I am in Voc Rehab and my counselor stated that I needed an extension. So she did forward the 28-1905 to my school. The school has been paid but I haven’t received my stipend in two months. Since it was extended should I receive my stipend?

    Reply
    1. Nick Savage

      Shouldn’t you call or email your counselor with Voc Rehab. If I had not had my stipend for two months, well the first day it didn’t show up, I would be at her doorstep.

      Reply
      1. Captain

        Post author

        Nick,

        Yes, she should definitely call her voc rehab counselor. If you are initially starting any VA education benefit, it’s possible you may not get paid the first month after classes start, because of processing times. If you haven’t been paid by the second month, though, then you should definitely contact your school certifying official first (if they don’t submit your certification, you don’t get paid) and then, if you are voc rehab, your counselor.

        Sarah

        Reply
    2. Captain

      Post author

      Shuneque,

      If you are in the program, then you should receive a stipend. The only exception would be if you were attending at less than half time; in that case, you would not receive a stipend. I would contact your voc rehab counselor immediately and let her know the situation so she can see where the problem is.

      Sarah

      Reply
  23. Rob

    I applied for Voc rehab when I had about 5 months left on my post 9/11 they sent my application to the wrong jurisdiction. I live in Fresno CA and they sent it to Oakland CA. By the time they received my application I was back in school and my post 9/11 was going to end half way into the semester. The Voc rehab counselor told me he would switch me from post 9/11 to CH-31 one day before the post 9/11 would end so that I would rate the post 9/11 SA. I have been receiving CH-31 SA for the time being because my post 9/11 was depleted. He told me he would go back and fix problem and I have not gotten any feedback on the situation except for I am working on it. This has been going on for 4 months and I don’t know what to do.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Rob,

      I am still working on figuring out how to get this fixed. Your counselor should have had you sign a form electing to receive the Post-9/11 GI Bill rate – did he do that? I’m a little concerned that he let your Post-9/11 eligibility lapse, as getting VA to stop paying you Ch-31 and start paying you Post-9/11 rates after this long is probably going to be a challenge. I will keep digging on this. In the meantime, if he didn’t have you sign that election form, I would definitely contact him and ask about that. If he did have you sign it, then I would see if you can find a copy of it, as that may be a critical document in this.

      Sarah

      Reply
      1. Rob

        No I don’t remember filling out an election form. Does that mean I’m out of luck? My contract start date for Voc Rehab is before my end date of post 9/11.

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Rob,

          Ok, I would definitely contact your counselor then and tell him that you want to know if your Post-9/11 BAH election form was processed. It’s possible you signed one and don’t remember – voc rehab does have a lot of paperwork. If you didn’t sign one, then you should request your counselor have you sign one and attempt to get paid retroactively. I honestly don’t know if VA will do it or not – could go either way – but they won’t be able to do anything without an election form being filed by your counselor. Keep me posted.

          Sarah

          Reply
          1. Rob

            I am finally receiving the right amount of pay I even got some retro pay. Thank you for all your help.

    1. Captain

      Post author

      Joe,

      Hard to tell based on such little information. However, most likely it means that they are correcting a past mistake. I always like to be sure, though – as, if they give you money, they can always take it back later. Here are a couple of places you can look to find information:

      – Ebenefits – which usually has a general explanation of all of the payments you are receiving from VA – http://www.afterthedd214.com/ebenefits/
      – Your Voc Rehab Counselor – “Ch31” is voc rehab, which means the payment is in some way related to your participation in that program. Your voc rehab counselor has to approve all of your payments, so he/she may have more details.
      – Your school certifying official – sometimes a school doesn’t enter your credits right initially, maybe because you changed number of credits you are enrolled in for the semester, and that changes how much VA should be paying you, so VA has to back pay you for that error.
      – VA Education Line – this would be my last resort, as they generally have less detailed information than your counselor or school certifying official, but you can always try them – 888-442-4551

      Hope this helps! Please let me know if I can answer any further questions for you.

      Sarah

      Reply
  24. DevilxDog

    Is there a way to receive full BAH of an E-5 with Dependents like the Post 9/11 GI Bill using the Voc Rehab?

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      DevilxDog,

      Yes. If you qualify for Post-9/11 GI Bill and have at least one day of entitlement remaining when you are accepted for the Voc Rehab program, you can elect to receive the Post-9/11 GI Bill BAH instead of the Voc Rehab stipend. In order to do that, you have to sign a form, which your Voc Rehab counselor will have.

      Please let me know if you have any further questions,
      Sarah

      Reply
  25. Layla

    I have researched this issue extensively and still cannot locate an answer:

    My HR graduate program has management classes that offer hybrid courses. Unfortunately, the HR classes are only available in an online format. Since I began my program, I have always taken one management and one HR class to meet the requirement to receive full BAH. After two more semesters I will complete the management classes, and I will still have about a year left of HR classes to take. Being that these classes are online, I will not be able to receive the full BAH payment.

    I have searched at length to find out if the VA grants a student an exception to policy in order to receive full BAH when their school only has graduate online classes available in a popular subject.

    Any information you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Layla,

      Unfortunately, the VA is not able to grant a waiver regarding online classes, as the rules governing the housing allowance were established in the Post-9/11 GI Bill law passed by Congress.

      There is often a significant difference between the in-residence housing allowance amount and the online only housing allowance amount. If that difference will cause financial hardship, I would suggest the following possible solutions:

      – Look into the Pathways Program, which is a paid federal government internship program for current or recently graduated college students (you can see my post on the subject for more details – http://www.afterthedd214.com/pathways-programs/)
      – Seek out alternative scholarship or financial aid resources, such as these HR specific scholarships: http://www.topdegreesonline.org/scholarships/human-resource-management/
      – If you think you might qualify for Vocational Rehabilitation, you may try applying for that and, if approved, elect to receive the Post-9/11 GI Bill housing allowance amount. While there was some debate about whether the online class rules applied to this housing allowance, to my knowledge they do not currently.

      I hope this helps clarify the situation for you. Please let me know if I can answer anything else for you.

      Sarah

      Reply
  26. Tamara

    Is there a regulation that shows that an online education can be approved under the Vocational Rehab program? My husband is interested in an online program even though the school that administers the program is out of the state.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Tamara,

      It doesn’t specify in the regulation. In fact, only Post-9/11 GI Bill has any restrictions regarding online programs. If your husband is interested in doing an online program out-of-state, the bigger issue will likely be the out-of-state part, as that may raise the cost to the VA. Ultimately, that decision will rest with the Voc Rehab counselor and he/she will be looking at details like: how long would it take to complete that program in comparison to other in-state programs; what is the job placement rate of the out-of-state program; is it a program that requires certifications and, if so, are those national level or state level certifications; does your husband require remedial classes in math or English (this is often the case if the vet has been out of school for quite some time), as VA will not pay for those if they are taken in an online setting. There are a number of other factors that go into the decision, but those are a few of the things that will need to be considered.

      Hope this helps,
      Sarah

      Reply
      1. Tamara

        Sarah, Thank you for this. The online program is about 1/4 of the price of the other in state schools; he can start it within the next month vs. take the GMAT or GRE for the in state schools; and has an excellent placement percentage. He will collect these statistics before his next meeting.

        Thank you!

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Tamara,

          Is the online school also accredited? I would be sure to check that, since that is also a critical factor.

          And, yes, the more data you can provide to your husband’s counselor to show how it increases the chances of getting employed, which is the purpose of Voc Rehab, the more likely you are that they would agree with your husband’s preferred choice.

          Glad I can help,
          Sarah

          Reply
        2. Rod

          Voc rehab will pay for schooling online! They will also pay for any school outside the state. I’m attending Thomas Edison State college on voc-rehab. Use the voc-rehab m-28r manual for any help you need. Voc-rehab counselor lie with every breath they take.

          Reply
  27. Jeff Crockett

    I was initially approved for Ch. 31 Voc. Rehab for a BSN in 2001. I had to stop my training in my 3rd year of school when I injured my back during clinical and started taking narcotic pain meds (which made me ineligible to continue participating due to school regulations.) I recently reapplied for Voc Rehab and was accepted, but my counselor informed me that I would only be eligible for 15 months of training due to the time used pursuing my initial nursing degree. I explained to her that the majority of my 90 college credits earned had been undergraduate “core” classes,which should transfer to any degree I switched to. I explained that if those credits transferred I should still be able to complete my degree in 1-1 1/2 years. My counselor said she was pretty sure that would not happen, and she thought it would be better for me to pursue a technical degree in Computer Science (we agreed in pursuing certifications for a computer network Security IT tech) rather than a college degree. She said most employers prefer someone with certifications rather than someone with a degree but no certifications. She said it would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to get an extension allowing me to complete a bachelors in Computer Science.

    My question is this: Is there any way to get an extension to allow me to use the credits I have already earned towards a Bachelors Degree in Computer Science, and if so would it be possible to finish my degree at Texas Christian University (where I originally attended Voc Rehab) rather than a public institution?

    Thank you for taking the time to review my email, and I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Jeff,

      There isn’t a way to get an extension. However, you may not need one. I recommend you make an appointment with an academic advisor at TCU and ask them to do a degree audit for a Bachelors in Computer Science. That will tell you how many of your classes from before are still valid and how many additional classes you would need to take in order to complete the new degree. I would also ask for a degree audit for the certificate program and see how many classes for the certificate program overlap with the bachelor’s. If a number of them overlap, you may be able to get Voc Rehab to pay for the certificate and then use PELL Grant or some other form of education benefit to complete the bachelor’s.

      Also, I would ask the TCU advisor for an unofficial transcript and take that to the public institution and see how many of your credits might transfer. They won’t be able to tell you for certain off the unofficial transcript, but they should be able to give you an idea of how it would compare to what you get from TCU. This will allow both you and your counselor to see more clearly which program is most likely to be completed in your remaining 15 months of education benefits.

      Also, I would do some market research on IT jobs and see if most of them want certifications and/or degrees, so you know whether the counselor is in tune with the local market.

      If you would like to discuss this in more depth, just let me know and I would be happy to discuss it further via email or phone. Hope this helps,

      Sarah

      Reply
      1. Jeff Crockett

        Thanks again Sarah,

        I managed to get everything my counselor asked for but she then decided that the letters I got from them saying I was able to return to the program was not enough. Now she is requiring me to get return to work letters from both of them saying I can work after I finish my program. The Semester starts on Monday and I still have not heard from my Doctors. I guess I will be waiting until next semester to hopefully get started..grr!

        Reply
        1. Captain

          Post author

          Jeff,

          I am glad I could help. Sorry to hear that it didn’t all work out, though. Unfortunately, so much about voc rehab depends on the counselor. I hope you can get everything lined up for next semester. Let me know if I can answer any more questions for you in the meantime.

          Sarah

          Reply
  28. Tamara

    Someone told me that the vocational rehab counselor has to justify all approved plans and that it is helpful if the veteran conducts research to help the counselor justify the program. Is that true? Also, what are the components of the rehabilitation plan? Can we go ahead and create one when meeting with the counselor? My husband has already been approved on a conditional basis and was given homework assignments, so we thought that we could help by being proactive and developing a draft rehabilitation plan. Thank you in advance; your content/blog is awesome!

    Reply
  29. Veteranwife79

    My husband has recently enrolled in the voc rehab and I am confused his counselors isn’t always helpful. My husband also used his GI bill he had one month remaining which made him eligible for voc rehab. He is interested in a program that will take 24 months to complete he was told he can only get 12 months through the voc rehab. I don’t understand how he can qualify they approve the program and tell him it will not cover the length of the program. Also I have read up to 48 months can be approved. Is there something he can or needs to do to get them to approve him for the length of his program? Thank you.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Veteranwife79,

      His eligibility for voc rehab isn’t based on his GI Bill eligibility – it is based on his service-connected disability rating. However, because voc rehab is still an education benefit, it falls under the law regarding how many months of VA education benefits a veteran is entitled to, which is 48 months TOTAL. Meaning, a veteran can potentially qualify for and use up to 48 months of any combination of GI Bill benefits – Post-9/11, MGIB, MGIB-SR, Voc Rehab, etc. Since your husband already used three years of GI Bill, he would only be entitled to an additional year of voc rehab. That is why they can authorize the program, but cannot legally pay for the entire 24 months of the program.

      There is nothing he can do, as far as I know, in order to get the 48 month limit extended, since it is law. However, you may look for other opportunities to cover the remaining 12 months that voc rehab won’t be able to cover. For example, PELL grant or school-based need grants, scholarships and other sources of funding may be able to help cover what voc rehab can’t.

      I hope this answers your question and please let me know if I can help with any other questions you might have,
      Sarah

      Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Jose,

      The answer to that should also be yes. I had students in voc rehab who were working full time and I also had students in voc rehab who had internships as part of their degree program. However, since rules change, I’d like to doublecheck the regulation before I say 100% yes. I will take a look today and confirm.

      Sarah

      Reply
    2. Captain

      Post author

      Jose,

      I went through the regs and the answer to both questions is yes, with one caveat. The goal of voc rehab is to get a veteran gainfully, sustainably employed in a position that does not aggravate, or is not impeded by, any service-connected conditions and which is commensurate with their skills and interests. If you are already steadily employed in a job that doesn’t aggravate your condition and matches your skill and interest level, then it might be iffy as to whether voc rehab will decide you are eligible. Still, even if you are employed full time or are in a paid internship, I would still apply for voc rehab, as they may, and often do, approve benefits for graduate level degrees or career transitions. Hope this helps!

      Sarah

      Reply
  30. Jose Ramos

    Can you have a paid internship that works towards your degree while using Vocational Rehab?

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Jose,

      I would need to doublecheck the regulation but most likely. I will dig into it. However, I also recommend you ask your voc rehab counselor, if you have one – they are always up on the latest rules.

      Sarah

      Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Kelly,

      The school decides that, generally based on state requirements. However, there is one exception regarding housing allowance. During a compressed term, such as summer term, where there are less weeks in a term than usual, the VA requires fewer credits to get the full housing allowance. For example, during a regular term, 12 undergraduate credits is usually considered full time. In a summer term, that may last only have the time a normal term lasts, you might only need 9 credits to be considered full time for housing purposes. (Note: This rule does not necessarily apply to other types of financial aid, such as PELL grant.) If you aren’t sure what your school considers full time, your school certifying official (SCO) or an academic advisor can tell you. And your SCO can tell you how many credits you would need in summer to be full time.

      I hope that answers your question. If it doesn’t, or if you have other questions, please let me know.

      Sarah

      Reply
  31. Linda mock

    Hello, *correction* I’m currently receiving VA compensation because I’m rated at 100%. my question is: do I get a stipend if I use regular vocational rehabilitation? My Voc rehab counselor told me that I would not qulify to receive the stipend since Im getting paid for a service connection at 100%. This doesn’t make sense to me. Please help

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Linda,

      Sorry it has taken me so long to get you an answer – I have been combing through the extensive Voc Rehab regulation (VA calls them handbooks) and the associated federal regulations. I have not been able to find anything to substantiate what your voc rehab counselor told you. In fact, the only reference to a reduction in subsistence allowance involves hospitalized veterans. And the only exceptions to any stipend are those who are only getting: an initial evaluation, placement and post-placement services, and counseling. I am including the link to the part of handbook that applies to the subsistence allowance, so you can reference it when you talk to your voc rehab counselor. If your counselor insists on the reduction, I would make him/her prove it to you by showing you the regulation or federal regulation that contradicts this one. Please let me know how it goes.

      http://www.benefits.va.gov/WARMS/docs/admin28/M28R/Part_V/pt05_ch03_secA%20(2).pdf

      Sarah

      Reply
  32. Linda mock

    Hi I’m currently receiving VA compensation because I’m rated at 100%. my question is: do I get a stipend if I use regular vocational rehabilitation? My Voc rehab counselor told me that I would not qulify to receive the stipend since Im getting paid for a service connection at 100%. This doesn’t make sense to me. Please help

    Reply
  33. Dathan

    Thank you for the information…I have been excepted into the program. I have heard that other than normal supplies; computers are sometimes purchased for the Veteran. Is there any truths to that?

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Dathan,

      Yes. What voc rehab pays for is entirely up to your vocational rehab counselor and what they decide is necessary for your education plan. However, I have had students who have had computers purchased for them through the program. If that is something you need, contact your counselor and see if he/she can get it authorized.

      Sarah

      Reply
    2. william

      Actually, that is true. During my initial meeting, The VOC REHAB counselor addressed if I had any needs in order to be successful in my class and actually they got me a laptop, a printer and a livescribe pen. I believe that if you are in need of a device that will help you in your classes the Voc Rehab counselor may ask you to fill a particular VA form for approval and to get you the device you need.

      Reply
      1. Captain

        Post author

        William,

        Thank you for adding your experience. I am sure if will help other vets going forward. Good luck with your studies!

        Sarah

        Reply
  34. Wayne

    BTW this training out of state would save me two years of training if I were to do it here. I can get the same training done in Florida in 8 weeks or less by a VA approved flight school. Or I can spend 3 years completing it here and risk my voc rehab benefits expiring in the process. I’m just curious to see if there is some kind of written rule or is it just my counsellors own personal rule! My next step is to contact my congressman. It just doesn’t sound right to me as I’ve had nothing but trouble with this guy from the start!

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Wayne,
      The short answer is that yes, there could be a reason why your voc rehab counselor can’t authorize you to train out of state. However, I am not sure I can tell you what that reason is based on the information I have here. Based on my experience, I would say it is likely one of the following reasons or a combination of these: 1) Voc rehab is localized, meaning that, if you go out of state (or change schools), you have to go through the approval process again and there is no guarantee that your new plan will be approved. 2) The flight requirements weren’t included in your voc rehab educational plan. This is the document that guides the whole voc rehab process and, if that part of the training wasn’t included in there, that could be the problem. 3) Your school may not accept the training if you do it there. VA only pays for what is required for your education plan and if your school accepts training from Washington but not from Florida, for example, then it isn’t considered as counting towards your current degree. 4) For some career fields, certification requirements are determined at the state level and they don’t accept certifications earned in other states (this happens often in the medical and law fields, for example). I am not that familiar with the flight regulations, but there may be a credentialing conflict there. I would see if any of these are the issue. If not, or if you need more information, please let me know and we can e-mail or even set up a time to talk on the phone to try to get to the bottom of this. Hope this helps! Sarah

      Reply
  35. Wayne

    I have a question! I’m attending an online regional accredited VA approved university! I live in Washington state, but my school is based in New Jersey. I’m im there aviation flight technology program. I’m currently enrolled and using my vocational rehab benefits while attending this school. I’ve maintained a 4.0 grade point average and I’m less than 9 months away from graduation. I’m a private pilot and I need to finish up my commercial and flight instructors ratings in order to compete my studies and start work. My vocational rehab counselor stated to me that I cannot do my portion of my flight training outside of the state in which I live. He didn’t explain to me why I wasn’t allowed to do this. Is there any specific reason as to why I can’t have my voc rehab counselor send me out of state to get the necessary training done in order to complete this program? Hope this makes sense?

    Reply
  36. Robert

    Do I have to go to school full time to keep the Voc Rehab benefits? I am struggling to maintain the workload.

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Robert,

      Technically, no. Going less than full time means a cut in your housing stipend, of course, (it’s pro-rated based on how many credits you are taking) but the main question is: will your voc rehab counselor approve you going less than full time? Generally they will, especially if you are struggling. Your voc rehab counselor should be meeting with you every semester to discuss these kinds of challenges and any necessary adjustments to your education plan. If you’ve already had your meeting this semester or that meeting is still months away, contact your voc rehab counselor and let him/her know that you are struggling and would like to attend school less than full time and see if they approve it. If they do, meet with your academic advisor and let them know that you only want to attend 3/4 or 1/2 time (whatever your voc rehab counselor agrees to) in the future. Hope this helps, Sarah

      Reply
  37. juwell

    As I am a Veteran who has used both 33 & 31. I am currently enrolling in graduate school and want to know how does the BAH work if I opted to receive the 9/11 amount when I first applied and was approved for 31. Since I am switching schools and I am not in need for an extension because of the kind of graduate program I am applying for, will the BAH rate stay the same even though I have switching to a post bachelors degree and a different school?

    Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Juwell,

      Any time you have a break in enrollment your BAH may change. I believe you only have to sign the Cht 33 BAH election form once but I would confirm that with your new Cht 31 Vocational Rehabilitation counselor.

      Sarah

      Reply
    1. Captain

      Post author

      Jeremy,

      That depends on your voc rehab counselor, your school, and why you failed.

      If you failed because you just stopped going to class, then you may have to pay the VA back for your stipend and your tuition and fees. If you failed because you couldn’t grasp the material, then VA usually doesn’t have a problem with that – at least not the first time you fail.

      If your grades have been good until now, then there probably won’t be an issue with your school either. However, if you’ve been borderline and this pulls you down onto academic probation or something similar, then it can limit how many classes you can take the following semester or impact your future schedule in some other way (you may also have an issue with them if you were getting PELL grant as well as Voc Rehab).

      Ultimately, it will be up to your voc rehab counselor to decide what happens next semester. They are the gatekeepers who decide if you get to continue and, if so, if a more limited schedule might be better for you.

      If you haven’t yet failed, but feel like you might fail a class, I would recommend contacting both your voc rehab counselor, who could do things like authorize paying a tutor for you, and your academic advisor, who can tell you about any tutoring or other resources the school might have available for you. You should probably also discuss with both of them the pros and cons of withdrawing from the classes versus continuing and getting Fs.

      I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions I can help you with.

      Reply
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